Older Gay Men in Hong Kong

1.   The Book
2.   Where Everybody Knew Your Name
3.   Told Ya
4.   Public Toilets In Very Rich Megacity
5.   Where Are The Older Gay Men In VRM...?

We've written about the shunning of older gay men in the apparently youth-focused "gay culture".  We say "apparently" because in between drink, drugs, poppers and cigarettes, the skinny twink or the muscleboy (add in steroids to that list), ages very badly - only to get shunned themselves - sooner rather than later.  See also what we've written in the series Gay Ageism.

1.  The Book

1.  A book recently published in Chinese, seeks to record the oral history of older gay men living in Very Rich Megacity.  They are quite literally, a dying breed who have now been given the chance to record their feelings and experiences knowing that they were gay, but forced by family pressure into marrying and raising a family.

2.  They grew up at a time when gay sex in VRM was absolutely illegal, even between consenting adults in private. The city was nowhere near as economically developed, there was no internet, no smart phones, no hookup apps, no gay bars, no gay saunas, no gay cafes, no gay retail.  Cruising could get one arrested for loitering with intent or gross indecency.

3.  There was also the dreaded "Pink List" of suspected gay men kept by the Special Investigations Unit of the Police.


2.  Where Everybody Knew Your Name

1.  So, where did they meet...?? (Underlining and bold print by FuelMix):

Back in the 60s and 70s, gay-specific venues were unheard of. And without the internet or social apps like Grindr, meeting possible love interests was a huge problem for gay men. One option was to go to public toilets to seek out other men. It was only a matter of time before the media hyped up these occurrences. 

“In the past, the media exaggerated how gay men were all sex maniacs, that they had sex shamelessly in public toilets. But imagine, at the time, there were no other places for them to go. This was the only space for them to go.....[a]nd during these meet-ups, they didn’t actually have sex. A lot of them went there to catch up on gossip, or to see friends. Their public toilets were our Starbucks at that time.”

 Some even met their long-term partners within the confines of the public toilet. 

“Hong Kong society at that time was poor and underdeveloped. Most people had to live in tiny apartments with lots of people.....The idea of family was supposed to be private but it was also very communal. In a way, these gay men could only find privacy in public. That was life.”

 -----"Interview: Dr Travis Kong - Oral History of Older Gay Men", TimeOut Hong Kong, 23 July 2014

3.   Told Ya

1.  We've written about the importance of public toilets for gay men.  In Principles of Faggotry 28 we said this:

It's fashionable to say that fags aren't loyal to anyone, or anything, or any gay venue.

Not so.

Fags are remarkably loyal to their public toilets.  All over the world, fags will haunt the same toilets for years, sometimes decades.

4.   Public Toilets In Very Rich Megacity

1.  Location of public toilets around here are marked on the official map books.  Gay men have a self-censorship and ambivalence in acknowledging that they even go there - and what they go there for.  The bottom line (pun intended) is that some  toilets in this city (with or without the upstairs showers) are notoriously cruisy, attracting all nationalities, ages and body types.  These days you'll see gym jocks, muscleboys, twinks, students, married guys, tourists and professionals - if you know where to look.  Some are even listed online. (The Chinese websites apparently have more detailed info)  And you might be surprised at what goes on.

2.  Does the older gay Asian who was a young man in the 60s and 70s still show up...?  Yeah, they do.  And the ones with the upstairs showers and the seating bench are still the gathering and gossiping place for them - except that they've also become a captive, highly voyeuristic, appreciative audience for a younger generation of exhibitionist types and some quirky uninhibited older ones.

3.  Just the other day, our friendly GAM on the street drew our attention to "Chinese opera" going on in the upstairs showers in a toilet across the street.  In we went and sure enough, there was this (we guess) 60-something chubby Chinese male strutting around in a flourescent pink G-string singing a pop song, whilst being eagerly groped by about 10 Asians of different ages.  We just grinned.......the conversation was whispered and animated, some knew each other.......they all knew Mr Pink G-String,  the amiable no-fee singer / stripper for a niche market.

4.  We wished we could have filmed it.


5.   Where Are The Older Gay Men In VRM...?   

(Underlining and bold print by FuelMix):

“They are the minority of the minority. They encounter a lot of discrimination within the gay community. We have a certain ideal perception of gay men, as if they’re all good-looking, have nice bodies, are rich and have a good command of English. We have all kinds of assumptions on gay men, but it’s not true. There are a lot of old gay men who don’t know how to speak English and could be really poor, living in tiny little apartments.....

Ageing gay men would be refused entry to gay saunas that only let young and good-looking gay men in.....It’s harder to say if it’s easier now than it was before for them.” 

 -----"Interview: Dr Travis Kong - Oral History of Older Gay Men", TimeOut Hong Kong, 23 July 2014

1.  We agree.  You won't find the older, poorer ones in the bars of Central, SoHo or Sheung Wan - although you will find them in the public toilets of Central, SoHo and Sheung Wan, to name a few. Remember, SoHo and Sheung Wan have some of the oldest residential flats in the city. Now that they are rapidly being gentrified and yuppified, are you surprised at the variety of "clientele" showing up at the public toilets in those areas.....?

2.  You won't find the older poor ones in most of the gay saunas where the entry price would (deliberately...??) be too steep for them and the discounts are for those under 24.

3.  But you will find them in 2 gay saunas namely Galaxy in Tsim Sha Tsui and KK Fitness in Jordan.

4.  This is what we wrote about the clientele in KK Fitness 3:

Now here’s the oddest part.  This is a gay sauna where everybody knows your name.  It’s  a drop-in centre for mature fags.  Whether they’re single, married, divorced, widowed or grandparents, they were all looking out for each other.  For some reason, FuelMix kept seeing surreal images of old men in Havana, Cuba sitting around in the cafes which had become their second home.

Those who wanted to be left alone, were left alone.  Those who bantered, bantered.  The staff were in on it too.  The displays of affection were clumsy but genuine.  FuelMix wondered about the era they must have grown up in as Oriental gay – or closet gay – men.  There were about 28 people there, enough for some of the private cubicles to see action.  But none of them were being used.  Going there for action didn’t seem to be the priority for them.  It was more about the shared space.

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